In conversation with Barbara Niveyro
There is a general idea that the private and the public sectors are two different words. They might have a lot of differences, but they also have a lot in common. We discussed these similarities and differences with Andrew Hsieh, a past U.S. Digital Response (USDR) user experience volunteer who is currently working at the General Services Administration (GSA) as a UX Lead of the Authentication team. We also discussed design workflows, accessibility, and “understanding” as a design philosophy.
For reading purposes, the interview was edited. Enjoy Andrew’s story!
Barbara Niveyro (USDR): Hi Andrew, thanks for taking the time to chat with me! Can we start by learning about your creative background?
Andrew Hsieh: I’m a designer at the General Services Administration (GSA), working for login.gov. But when I went to college, I wanted to write plays. I studied theater and literature, and I wanted to be an artist. But I wasn’t super good at it, so I tried to find a way to use my marketing degree for something else. The first thing that got me into tech was marketing; I used my storytelling abilities to write blogs and marketing content.
BN: Storytelling is an important skill, no matter what field you are in, right?
AH: I think that’s really what kicked it off. Even though I’m no longer in marketing, those storytelling skills still serve me today. It helped me emphasize the user’s journey. When you think about how a user feels about a particular feature or product and how they go on their journey, how can we make their journey as smooth and usable as possible?
BN: And then you switched from private to public, right? How was that transition? And what do you do at login.gov?
AH: Login.gov is a platform where you can access the government website with a single account. The dream is to make it standardized across various federal agencies. I am one of the designers of the authentication portion of login.gov.
I won’t say that I was 100% prepared to switch to the public sector, but I did try to do my due diligence. Everyone was very interested and invested in ensuring I knew as much as possible going in. So I took advantage of that and learned how to adjust to the public sector. And then I also got some book recommendations, which I read to be even more prepared.
BN: What did you read?
AH: The big one is Cyd Harrell’s, A Civic Technologist’s Practice Guide. Cyd Harrell is the Chief Digital Services Officer for the city and county of San Francisco. She’s been in government for a while, including when she was at the federal government as part of 18F, and she also has the experience of moving from the private sector to the public sector. I found her book instructive on how to work in government, not just in terms of logistical work like how to work with career staff, but also like the different expectations that government people set for you and that you should set for yourself. It’s just beneficial.
BN: How is the workflow when you are a designer in the public sector?
AH: I can only speak to login.gov, where it’s fairly similar to a company like Meta, where I used to work. For example, in Meta I would also have security and legal reviews of anything I designed. And it’s the same thing here where anything I write or design has to go through revisions to ensure that we’re not running afoul of any regulation or security framework. It was a bit more different at startups where I’ve worked. If I wanted to do something, I could have that autonomy. So as far as the speed perspective, public service is probably more akin to a larger company.
BN: So for example, in 90 days in a large corporation or 90 in the public sector, you can achieve the same?
AH: I think in a startup, depending on your resources, you might be able to launch some kind of minimum viable product within 90 days. In a larger company, you might have various kinds of design and product reviews, so it might take half a year or longer to launch. And in the government, you might broadly generalize things to work more like that bigger company. You might be able to make minor changes relatively quickly, but it might take half a year to research, test, and launch a minimum viable product.
And I think it’s reasonable, because of how many people these products will affect. Like at Meta, I was very proud that I worked on stuff like Messenger and Instagram, which in my mind, affected a large number of people. But in reality, those only affect people with smartphones or computers, who can use Meta's products. If we think about something like the government, like government websites, many people who live in the US may have to interface with services like login.gov at some point. And so the potential for impact is high because you’re reaching people who may be unhoused, who may only have access to the internet or computers from a library, for example. So that’s the difference, there are so many potential users from so many different backgrounds, and we have to consider how the government can serve all their needs.
“So that’s the difference, there are so many potential users from so many different backgrounds, and we have to consider how the government can serve all their needs.”
BN: So, how would you describe your design philosophy?
AH: I think it really is about understanding. I admire the lengths government designers and researchers go to understand not only the particular use cases that one group of people might have but the broader ways anyone could interact with a product. And frankly, I wish that more people knew about it, that products in public service come from in-depth research from as many different groups of people as possible, whether it’s people with cognitive disabilities or lower digital literacy or what have you.
Even when you think that you’ve covered all your bases, there’s a 100% certainty that there is a user group out there who you haven’t paid attention to and who will find it difficult to use your product or service. Whether that’s something like someone with accessibility needs who uses a particular assistive device that isn’t covered by your product or it’s someone who is unhoused who doesn’t have consistent access to a phone.
“I wish that more people knew about it, that products in public service come from in-depth research from as many different groups of people as we possibly can”
BN: Accessibility plays such an essential role in the process.
AH: Yes! What do you do in those scenarios? How do you better serve that product to people? Even if it’s a smaller percentage, it’s still impacting people. I don’t want to be out there saying I intentionally decided not to care about them because they seemed like such a little number of people in my metrics.
BN: And it is super challenging. That’s why a lot of projects fail at this.
AH: I think it’s challenging. And at the same time, there are different options you can make depending on the product or service. Especially if it’s something that is supposed to serve everyone in America, like your driver’s license.
BN: Let’s go to the most important part of our interview. Volunteering! How did you connect with USDR?
AH: I was looking for ways to volunteer and knew someone at USDR. I was nervous when I started volunteering because I had never worked on a government product, feature, or service before. But everyone who I worked with was extremely knowledgeable and helpful and put me at ease. It felt good to give back alongside people who were passionate about volunteering and designing for the public.
I worked on two separate projects. The public project was for Pueblo County, and we essentially helped them streamline the process for users to look for a covid test or a vaccine site — it was really rewarding; I felt needed in a way that I rarely feel, and I think everyone felt the same way. Especially during the pandemic, that was the most important thing that I probably worked on, and it made me look into working for the federal government.
“I like this idea of “you can’t just tackle a problem through only one method,” and I think it applies here. So, try everything! You could sign up to volunteer for USDR, get a project, and just do it!”
BN: How would you motivate someone that wants to volunteer or work in tech?
AH: Put yourself out there! My friend Caroline told me once about how she was talking to the chief engineer at Westinghouse Nucleart. And the engineer was saying that basically, in the future, the world needs a multipronged approach to energy, with different sizes of reactors or renewable energy, or other solutions.
I like this idea of “you can’t just tackle a problem through only one method,” and I think it applies here. So, try everything! You could sign up to volunteer for USDR, get a project, and just do it, which is how I approached it. Or you could read something like Cyd Harrell’s Civic Technologist’s Guide to know what you can expect, or contact someone in the public sector over LinkedIn. I’ve already talked to many people who just wanted to hear about how things are different between the public and private sectors.
I’ll also say USDR is especially good for setting expectations about government work, especially since there are so many volunteer opportunities, whether for the county, city, or something else. You can start setting a foundation for what you may expect. And see how your skills can help everyone!
